Ritam - Being in Balance. A Podcast on Wellbeing
Mental wellbeing is an escalating global challenge having serious impact on the quality of life, productivity in workplace etc. Our approach to wellbeing fundamentally depends on our perspective of ourselves. Are we just human beings, not much different from animals or something more? Over thousands of years the Vedic spiritual seekers dived deep within themselves to explore the inner space and they repeatedly verified that we all, without exception, are in essence really spiritual beings having human experiences. Their discoveries form Vedanta philosophy - the 'science of human excellences" - which explain in detail and with much clarity how we have multidimensional physical, mental, emotional and ethical layers of personality covering the fundamental Pure and eternal spiritual being. Along with this, the Vedic seekers developed systematic Yoga techniques to purify our minds and "dis-cover" our true Self.
The Vedantic conception of ourselves and Yogic mind-management techniques offer an alternative approach to address the mental wellbeing challenges. Ramakrishna Vedanta Centre, Auckland has taken up a project to make available these Vedanta-Yoga teachings to empower individuals with the knowledge and skill-sets to better manage their minds, emotions, values etc. to live meaningful, peaceful and productive lives.
Ritam is the Vedic principle responsible for maintaining order, harmony and rhythm both in the macrocosm and the microcosm. Stress, tension, dis-ease etc arise when we lose this balance at different levels of our being and around us. We have limited capacity to influence change outside us but we can definitely integrate our mind to our inner Self to gain greater poise, balance and rhythm in life. Meditation is the art of turning the mind inwards and anchoring it to our eternal, omniscient, blissful and pure Self. The more we are integrated with our inner Self, the greater will be the influence we can cast around us. This is the spiritual way to freedom from the slavery to the eternal world and internal body, senses and mind.
Ritam - Being in Balance is our series of conversations with Swami Tadananda wherein we explore the Vedanta-Yoga teachings and practices to promote our wellbeing.
Ritam - Being in Balance. A Podcast on Wellbeing
17. Wellbeing - Finding Rhythm in Family, Work, and Leadership
Swami Tadananda dissect's how shared goals and mutual support create a harmonious family unit, crucial for a robust society. From the crafting of a will to the constant give and take of marital dynamics, we examine how our choices can either fortify or disrupt this delicate balance, serving as a poignant reminder of the need for mindfulness in decision-making.
Step into the professional sphere with us as we analyze the quest for job satisfaction and the importance of finding a workplace that echoes your values. Discover the integral part each employee plays in achieving organizational harmony and how respect across all levels underpins a productive environment.
Concluding our session, Swami Tadananda imparts spiritual wisdom, drawing from the Bhagavad Gita to offer guidance that transcends religious boundaries. We reflect on the qualities of empathetic leadership and the nurturing environments which not only engender loyalty and performance but also imbue our professional lives with deeper meaning. Tune in for these enriching dialogues as we seek the rhythm that keeps our collective symphony in tune.
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Namaste to you, tamlisans. My name is Sunil. I'm with Swami Tadananda from the Ramakrishna Vedanta Center of Auckland, new Zealand. How are you, samaji? I'm very good, sunil, thank you. How are you? I'm good, thank you. In the last episode, we started talking about applying the principles of rhythm to oneself, the individual, and then also in a family unit. Can we please carry on these discussions today and also try and apply these to other areas where we spend a lot of time in, for example, workplaces, wider communities, the society and so on?
Speaker 2:Yes, sunil. Yes, we did discuss a little bit about what binds a family together, what is the common thread that runs through all the flowers, that makes the garland, and if all the members are mindful of maintaining and holding onto the thread here, it is probably not like a thread, but we are all holding hands together and it forms a circle where each is supporting the other all around and we do not do anything that unsettles the situation in a family, that can lead to differences and rifts and breakups and all those type of things. So there's a great responsibility and that's where the knowledge of rhythm as the fundamental laws by which we associate with each other, by which we group together and what gels and holds us together, it's a very, very scientific, rational way of looking things rather than saying a very emotional thing. We are just family, but you know what is that family thing? It's just not having people together, you know. And then we utilize that knowledge to strengthen the harmony.
Speaker 2:A good example could be we find sometimes that you know Samelda has passed away, father or grandfather has passed away and he's left behind a will and of inheritance as who should get what. If he's a very wise, elderly person, he will make that will, keeping in mind that this important document would promote the binding of the family together. Because that is his family, you know. He has worked his whole life. He has brought the children up, educated them, taught them so many things. The last thing he would want to do is to have chaos in there.
Speaker 2:But if he is not mindful of this, he might make a will that can create so much disharmony when he passes away. On the other hand, he can create a will that can really bind the whole family together in a very powerful thing, as a powerful unit where each member will look back at their father and say he was so nice, even after death. He had such a positive influence on us that we are living in mutual respect and love and care and harmony and all those type of things. So, but you will find that it doesn't happen all the time. No, okay, and so why did he do something that disrupted everything? It is that he did not understand this basic principles of rhythm, you know, and that is what binds people together, what keeps them together. Well, that is an example of somebody having an impact on their family, even from the grave.
Speaker 2:Okay, but in everyday life. You see, people get together. The very fact two people will get together and decide to form a family in the first place A young man, a woman get to know each other and they find certain things are common and they think, okay, let's make the deal that we will live the whole life together. That's what we call a marriage. Yeah, it's a contract, it's an agreement, it's understanding of that. Yes, we will have our differences, but we'll hold on to the common things and not make a big deal of our differences, while still allowing that other person to have their own space to express themselves and do the things. But something still binds them together. So long that binding force, the resonating force, if you want to say the rhythmic force, is stronger, the pair will continue to live. But if they're not mindful and they begin to focus more on the differences than the common thing, more about IA than us together, then that interconnection, the coupling, so to say, that's why they're called a couple, because they're coupled.
Speaker 2:Coupling means when two things are at the same frequency, they're resonating, pulsating together. So that's probably where the work, so the coupling can become decoupled or there could be stresses in there that can go. So if people they do not understand what is that keeps people together and how that is to be nurtured, one can very easily do something that bit stupid that can throw things out of balance, and what they have invested so much time and effort can be undone with some stupid decision that they did not really understand. And it has got the consequences, because it's not just two people decoupling and going their own way. They've got children and they need parents and their personal, emotional needs, physical needs and all those things. Sometimes they take a backseat and that's how families break.
Speaker 2:So something worthwhile thinking deeply, because it's something very common that happens nowadays. And if people understand at a deeper level, what does it mean to come together, what does it mean to the mechanics of it, the energy that binds us. It's a very close, tight unit where you're caring, sharing, not only that, you're sacrificing a little bit for the other person, because such is the bond that is there and giving and taking. Everything that becomes a very important unit of a society. And if families are strong, the society is strong. If families are fragmented, it has got consequences in all types of, at all areas of life, so to say. So that's a common thing and I think people need to understand that deeply, be mindful that every decision they make, every action they do has got a consequences. It can either promote harmony.
Speaker 2:Or it can break it. So you'll see actively, people will try to do that. We have family gatherings on various occasions. Christmas time we must get together wherever you are, come and meet, interact personally, drop everything that is like the culture of that family and the elders would be there. There's a rule, guys wherever you are in the world around, this time you'll all come together and meet the new members of the family is a time of what you call the bonding.
Speaker 2:What we're trying to do in the sense of rhythm is trying to reestablish and strengthen the rhythm that we are all together, we're part of a bigger unit and the unit sort of nurtures and protects the individuals there. So here a new idea comes why do we need to be in rhythm with others? Why can't I just be a free floating guy on my own? I don't need the society, I don't need the family, I don't need anything. I am so strong that is only for those who are very strong that they don't need the support of others.
Speaker 2:By and large, most people need the support of others, so they gravitate towards these units. It could be an organization, it could be whatever it is there because the system feeds the energy into the individual. An individual also contributes into that organization or organism, whether it's a family or organization. So I think deeply our listeners might want to reflect on that and then personally look at their own lives because everyone is different family situation and say can I detect the under-workings of this principle and have that awareness all the time so that when I make the decisions and choices it's based on this deep understanding of this principle?
Speaker 1:So you're trying to detect that principle within your individual self and then how it can apply to the family unit and to other units that you're part of. What is the teaching that's minding us?
Speaker 2:Extended family or community and whatever is there, but to understand ourselves as not just physical beings who are just doing things like that, you know, people saying things, people doing some things. No, deep inside each one is a mind. That mind is actually operating, which is expressing itself as behavior. We are not worrying too much about the external behavior. We are trying to understand the mind itself. The mind is constituted as a bundle of energy, thoughts, ideas, desires, previous karma and everything. Each one has got its own natural frequency and for some reason or the other, we have gravitated together to form a bond. It could be a Jiva who has migrating, transmigrating, is now attracted into your family.
Speaker 2:Something has drawn that individual into your family unit. But there are certain principles that govern the whole thing there. And if this Vedantic perspective empowers people to have that deeper insight about who they are and who others around them are, what is holding them together Every once, action either promotes strengthening the harmony or, if you're not careful, it can dismantle that harmony. Understand all those things and then make smart choices, wise choices, right decisions in life. A lot of problems can be avoided if we have this type of insight.
Speaker 1:You're right. What about? So? We've talked about families and individuals, but what about the wider areas like work? What about work? How will we apply some of the principles in that space?
Speaker 2:Well, interestingly, we spend quite a bit of our day time, monday to Friday, working 8 hours or so with people who just gather in a place for a particular purpose. Okay, we're working for some company. Why do you need to work for some company? Well, you need money. Most of the people starts there and if you didn't need money, you would not go to work.
Speaker 1:For most people, yeah, For most people.
Speaker 2:you know, if you hit a jackpot of a billion dollars, you're not going to turn up to work next day. Okay, so, basically, the need for money is there. Don't say I love work, I'll turn up even though I don't need the money. I'm not getting paid, I still go to work. No, that's the underlying thing. Why? Because it has. Of course, you need your money to take care of yourself, family, all those type of things, anyway. But where do you work? You choose so many. There's so many options are there. So many organizations and companies are there. But you will fit in where your inner skills, knowledge, your mental makeup, your training resonates with that particular organization. All right, so what do you do? You put out an advertisement so to say this is your bio data, cv, this is where you have grown up, this is your training, this is your experience and all those things. And when you advertise, you're trying to say is there a group I can resonate with? Or somebody's looking, a member like me to fit into the team? Yeah, all right.
Speaker 1:If fit into the team is so important nowadays. Yes, because technically a lot of people would meet the requirements. You know. Take off, like you know, I'm trying to have an engineer who has one of the requirements and this many years of experience. All of these could be checked off. But then the final thing that a lot of companies are looking for is a fit, which is yet the culture. They call it, the words used, but really it's trying to see if they can work at the same rhythm.
Speaker 2:Yes, Do you. How well will you fit in the values and the ethos or the culture of the organization so that you will promote the harmony to the next level, not be a bull in a Chinese shop that will come and dismantle things around you know, because sometimes you're given a lot of power.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And if you're not mindful of how you're using that power and you exercise it in a wrong way, it can just become very, very disruptive. You find that, you know, yeah, happens all the time. So so the task of the challenge of the people who are going to interview and find somebody, you know how important, is not just looking at the CV. You know it's looking about how well they can read the mind of that person. Basically, yeah.
Speaker 2:Okay, it's not easy. It is not easy, well, if they're looking for that. So it's very difficult in the sense because you're having a conversation in interview, we are throwing some pebbles in a deep well and you're trying to gauge what is there and the depths of it from the sound that comes, yeah, and that person is also very, very alert to feed you the one that you want to hear yeah, that's the thing.
Speaker 2:It's not his natural environment. Right now he's really alert to respond the way that will impress the interviewer. Yes, correct, so it's an artificial type of environment. You are not really watching him when he's unobserved or he's not knowing that he's observed and you see him as it is. So really, the interviews from that point of view are not very, very useful. In that sense you have to find some other ways to catch them out. Most time people will say, okay, join us for probation, we'll test you out, yes, okay, and see how you perform and all those things. Yeah, and then we'll make the final decision to say make you permanent or not, because they know the interview situation is a false environment type of thing. So basically, what they're looking for is somebody who will fit in, not only that, who will also promote the common interest of the group to the next level. And those are the ones we call leaders. They will lead them to the next level, type of thing In upper management. We want more of those type of things.
Speaker 2:So imagine organization is not. Organization has got different hierarchies. That's how it organization is constituted. You can't have all people at the same level. That is that's not an organization. You have the CEO and then upper management and support groups or finance and all those things. But at right at the bottom, you have the men working on the factory floor out in the field. Is there? Each one is important. So the most important thing is that for the harmony of the whole unit, everyone has to be valued and in terms of giving them respect and how important they are, if a guy on the ground floor does some mistake and something wrong, it can unsettle the whole organization. You see losses and I put under everyone under stress and all those type of things. So to understand how everyone fits in in this organization, rather than just looking at them, skill sets and people who come and do certain amount of work in a very mechanical way, is to look up them as minds and how much they the all the units are in common rhythm. So the question would be if you ask everyone are you happy at the workplace? Are you happy to turn up here at 8 o'clock and you enjoy your time here doing your work in the company of the people that are there, and when you leave here you felt that you know it was a nice, comfortable, good place.
Speaker 2:If somebody is saying, no, I am not happy at work, then that has to be looked at by two people, from the people who are around them. You know so. You have to be sensitive and mindful of other people around. You cannot go around saying and doing things just for the sake of unsettling people. It happens when people are not very sensitive. On the other hand, one has to also look at things from a subjective point of view. One should not be oversensitive to everything and everything and finding faults with others when they could themselves be the cause of the problem that they find themselves in. So which one is which sometimes the balance of this and balance of that. Most of the time, the individual cannot probably exercise that type of influence to begin to control the environment around. You can't change your boss, okay okay, you can't.
Speaker 2:We wish you good night well, he say he has got a higher power given to him and he exercises that because he said that's my responsibility. If he's very mindful of every decision he makes and says how is going to touch the lives and minds of all my people down the line in so many levels, then he will think deeply before he makes a decision. But if he's not sensitive about that flow of that energy that binds, the rhythm, the rope that flows through all of them, that content, he might just say something, make a decision and throws everyone out of rhythm. You know he comes with a new idea and will do things in this way.
Speaker 2:Guys, you know those were. People were established in a nice rhythm. This is how they've been doing for a long time. He comes with a new way of doing things and everyone is very apprehensive whether they will be able to maintain that rhythm in the new setup or they might fall apart, or they might become expendable or obsolete and ask to leave or something. So all that creates a lot of stress and tension and I think at the top level, when the management makes a decision, they should have a face, an exercise maybe, to say what is the impact of this decision on each level. Yeah, and also cool.
Speaker 1:You know the change management is what the term is nowadays used to go. How do we manage? Let's say it's agreed at a top level that this is a good decision at the end. Like outcomes would be good. But how do we manage that change? Yeah, yeah, individually. Yeah, what level of support are we gonna get in there? How are we gonna message this change to the people at the right level? We're using the right examples.
Speaker 2:We're using having a buy in and they and also supporting them to for the new role, training and all that and and creating a more efficient to effective or productive organization where, again, everyone is happy but it's a better organization and so essentially what we're saying is that they were working in the rhythm previously.
Speaker 1:There's some change coming because maybe the management has thought we need to evolve with times, whatever and they're gonna put some change in which is gonna unsettle a few people, because things got a rhythm for a bit, but the idea is to get it back in rhythm really quickly yes, so you don't want to jolt it out too much, that it unsettles and some people fall off.
Speaker 2:You might say we do it in small steps. Yeah, okay, that's one way of doing things. Secondly, we engage with the people you know, everyone is important.
Speaker 2:It's not to be so. You go and work the ideas with them, explain to them how they will fit in, remove any apprehensions that might be there, and all that takes time and patience, but if one values people, and people were approached and said, at least the boss came in, asked me you know he respected me. What I said is not, but he respected me enough to come down and say what do you think about this? I gave my view, he listened to it. I feel good that I was able to had an opportunity, be part of it, rather than a secular comes down. Hey guys, from now on, today, this is going to happen out of the blue. That is very poor management, you know, type of thing.
Speaker 2:But there's a principle of rhythm that runs through the whole organization and good leaders have a finger on the pulse of that common thread.
Speaker 2:Astute ones, sharp ones, they will always feel something is beginning to go off the rhythm. Before the earthquake comes, sort of say, before the shake-up comes, it might be a little bit of disgruntling is there and this and that is there. If you ignore that noise, well, next thing it becomes a little louder and it turns out as a protest or something you know, or somebody strike you know, or he says I'm resigning and going and you lose somebody important. Why? Because he was expressing certain things and saying in different ways that he's not comfortable, he's not in rhythm with this and people did not pay attention. Make an effort to help that person to reintegrate. That's what happens. So some degree of rhythm will maintain, but when you begin to make change and it might not be a change it could be just like suddenly the COVID has come you know, just thrown everything about, or some government's policy has come you know and says, hey, this is how things are happening and the organization has is forced to adjust and adapt to it.
Speaker 2:But you have to be mindful of the not only the profit part of it, but how to manage the most important SAPG, which is the people.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Because without that the organization does not exist, type of thing. And it's not easy, it's learned over experience. It one requires a sensitivity, not only intellectual type of understanding. One requires more of the heart. So the good leaders are the ones who lead not with the intellect, with the heart. Because when you talk about resonance, resonance is a quality of the heart. Yeah, you feel the frequency, you feel the frequency. Can you operate?
Speaker 2:that frequency of the organization For example, does the boss look upon all the members as his own family, the organization? There? I'm the head of the family. Everyone is important. You know the youngest kid who has joined that is also important in the family type of thing. And as a patriarch you know it's my responsibility to make sure that all are happy. And he goes down and talks to them. It's not always about work, it's about, hey, how's your family? You know, you know how are they doing. And he might say my son is a little sick today. I take few hours off and go and look after that. That's more little gesture. You know where the person thinks. My boss is not about making me work so many hours only and looking at my productivity. He's a man who feels for me beyond my work and he's given me this few hours off and he goes home and but that man is going to work for you. Anytime you call him at midnight he'll turn up at work. Because now he has become totally identified. He's in rhythm with the organization, because the organization is taking care of him. Not only he's not looking him just as an employee, he's seeing where he comes from, he's more concerned about the whole family. I think that type of binding things there is very important. It could be a small gesture.
Speaker 2:I read a very interesting example of this great scientist, abdul Kalam. You know they work on this sending these rockets, satellites into space and how his staff would think they would work very hard. You know long hours, deadlines are there to meet and you don't have many chances of making mistakes, but in the midst of all the tremendous pressure from government and performance and all those things, they never lost that touch with the individuals. And I remember reading in a day reminiscences of one of those scientists who are saying, you know, just working flat out and this and that. And the boss came to know that on that particular day there was a graduation for the child of one of those scientists you know. So he came and said, hey, you take yours off, your family is important, you need to be present there. And he gave that time off. So he would have been just surprised. Why? How did the boss know about my family? You know, why would he care about that? That he came and made that arrangement that would have so deeply touched his heart?
Speaker 2:You know, I think good leaders are the people who resonate deeply with the whole units and the individual units of the organization. It's not always profit. Profit will automatically come. If you can get that heart right, the performance will come. But if you don't get that heart right, he will be a person who will just mechanically turn up and say I've got to do my so many hours, okay, clock in, clock out, type of thing, and then yeah, and he could be least. He's not identified with the organization. He looks upon the organization as a place where he's going to make his livelihood and tomorrow, if another one of us a better salary, he's going to simply get out and go to the next place and he will not miss the new place, the old place at all that means he was so disconnected even while he was there.
Speaker 2:So if you asked this question to test out that to employees, if somebody gives you a better salary, slightly better salary, would you leave this? And if he says yes, of course I'll leave you, that means it's not really connected deeply. He's just there for work and pay type of thing. But another will say no.
Speaker 2:I love this place. This is got a nice environment here. I've got friends here. They mean to me, the organization takes care of me. There's something more than just clock in, clock out and a fortnightly paycheck. That means that person's heart is resonating more deeply with the organization. It could be even with the ethos of the organization. This organization represents something very high and valuable that is dear to a person. You know charity organization or there's philanthropy in there. There's kindness or the type of work they are doing brings so much good to the society and they want to be part of someone such organization. Another could be an organization that could be making weapons or this and that that creates so much suffering in some people will say I don't want to work for some organization that and be part of something that brings so much suffering out there.
Speaker 2:So I think there are many layers of a human being the intellectual, the emotional and most of the time the emotional one is the more powerful one. We undermine the importance of emotions in our decision making. When we talk about rhythm, resonance has to do more with the heart than with the head. The underlying principles we understand, intellectually at least, but the rhythm is felt at the heart level. So you make the decision about how you feel about it. You might not be able to logically explain everything and say I make that choice because I feel good about it, the right energy is there, I feel it, and basically that's how the rhythm principle works.
Speaker 2:It will be very interesting to explore a little bit more to understand rhythm in terms of how it can bring in a new member who is on the fringe, so to say, and integrate them as part of the unit. And if one is not careful, it can lose somebody who will lose the rhythm and drift off. And that's when you say somebody comes to your office and says boss, here's my resignation letter. You know that means I'm detaching myself and taking off, you've lost him, type of thing somehow. And so maybe we can look at it a little bit more, if you want, in the in another episode.
Speaker 1:Okay, sure so thank you.
Speaker 1:Samarjee, it's been some good conversations. I think I could definitely relate to the examples you gave individual family, the wider, the wider community, but also the work. The work one is very. I think it's very important and quite important for a lot of people that work in unsatisfactory environments. So they're working in areas where they're not out of rhythm with organization right. So it's important for them to either get into rhythm or find some, some other place where they can be in rhythm. Otherwise they'll always be in a place which is not comfortable for them they'll be a disease right.
Speaker 1:So it's good, it's really good.
Speaker 2:Well, I think we've talked about a bit about the organization externally. Maybe another discussion we could have as well. We don't have all the control of people around us. How do we strengthen ourselves so that little things cannot throw us out of rhythm? That means we find you know a little bit of that around too much. People are too sensitive. You know they make a big thing out of small things and then make decisions that probably in hindsight say why did I amplify that too much, you know. So maybe another episode. We talk about how we can be so integrated and ideal situation would be to be so deeply integrated that nothing can throw us out of balance. We will survive and thrive in every situation, no matter how difficult the boss is or how challenging the work environment is. And if you look at the Bhagavad Gita and look at the situation of Arjuna, where in that crisis moment before the war starts, he goes off rhythm, yeah, that's right.
Speaker 2:Okay, the outcome of the war and everything. It throws him off the balance and all his wonderful powers and skills and everything. You know. He's defeated, shaking, shivering, and all that. And what Sri Krishna prescribes to him as a you might say, a very spiritual psychiatrist, psychologist, is the technique and the art of getting him integrated with himself. And he says, the ideal person is one who is what is called Siddha Pragya, established in the wisdom or the awareness of one's spiritual self, and when you are there you can do anything and everything, and nothing will knock you off. So from that point of view, the Bhagavad Gita is a wonderful manual for every young person to read and understand the principles and apply them in one's life so that we can live a life that has got deep meaning and purpose.
Speaker 1:It's not a religious thing anymore.
Speaker 2:It's about a manual to live life, and those things are beautifully explained there.
Speaker 1:Thank you, Samajeev. That was very enlightening and educational.
Speaker 2:See you again at the next episode.
Speaker 1:Thank you Suneil.
