Ritam - Being in Balance. A Podcast on Wellbeing
Mental wellbeing is an escalating global challenge having serious impact on the quality of life, productivity in workplace etc. Our approach to wellbeing fundamentally depends on our perspective of ourselves. Are we just human beings, not much different from animals or something more? Over thousands of years the Vedic spiritual seekers dived deep within themselves to explore the inner space and they repeatedly verified that we all, without exception, are in essence really spiritual beings having human experiences. Their discoveries form Vedanta philosophy - the 'science of human excellences" - which explain in detail and with much clarity how we have multidimensional physical, mental, emotional and ethical layers of personality covering the fundamental Pure and eternal spiritual being. Along with this, the Vedic seekers developed systematic Yoga techniques to purify our minds and "dis-cover" our true Self.
The Vedantic conception of ourselves and Yogic mind-management techniques offer an alternative approach to address the mental wellbeing challenges. Ramakrishna Vedanta Centre, Auckland has taken up a project to make available these Vedanta-Yoga teachings to empower individuals with the knowledge and skill-sets to better manage their minds, emotions, values etc. to live meaningful, peaceful and productive lives.
Ritam is the Vedic principle responsible for maintaining order, harmony and rhythm both in the macrocosm and the microcosm. Stress, tension, dis-ease etc arise when we lose this balance at different levels of our being and around us. We have limited capacity to influence change outside us but we can definitely integrate our mind to our inner Self to gain greater poise, balance and rhythm in life. Meditation is the art of turning the mind inwards and anchoring it to our eternal, omniscient, blissful and pure Self. The more we are integrated with our inner Self, the greater will be the influence we can cast around us. This is the spiritual way to freedom from the slavery to the eternal world and internal body, senses and mind.
Ritam - Being in Balance is our series of conversations with Swami Tadananda wherein we explore the Vedanta-Yoga teachings and practices to promote our wellbeing.
Ritam - Being in Balance. A Podcast on Wellbeing
36.Wellbeing - Jnana Yoga part 1
Embark on an enlightening path through the teachings of Jnana Yoga. A poignant fable about a lion cub raised among sheep illustrates the importance of direct experience and guidance in realizing one's true self. Swamiji expands on how embracing divine consciousness fosters unity and interconnectedness, allowing us to transcend individual suffering and connect with a greater sense of purpose and peace. This episode plants the seeds for future explorations into the practical applications of these timeless teachings.
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Welcome to Rhythm, namaste Rhythm listeners and Namaste Swamiji, namaste Sunil, how are you? I'm good, swamiji, and you I'm very good, thank you.
Speaker 1:It's great. I wanted to let our listeners know that we're recording this episode from the Wellbeing Centre in Glenmurray, which is about an hour's drive from Auckland. It's nestled in a very beautiful picturesque landscape and the centre is truly stunning. It's veryled in a very beautiful picturesque landscape and the center is truly stunning. It's very calm and peaceful. I'm actually really enjoying the serenity of this place. How are the preparations going for the opening, Swamiji?
Speaker 2:Yes, sunil. So we are going to have a formal ceremony, a functional event, over the weekend of 9th and 10th of November, and we are inviting all the people who have been supporting us, plus the farming community of this locality, people from the administration, the district council, the Maori leaders, kaumatuas, the maori leaders come to us. So over this last one month or so, I have been going out making this connections with the people, telling them who we are, what we are doing, and so the idea is that we bring everyone together that weekend and we'll have the traditional blessings Maori blessings of the land. Pre-dawn We'll have our traditional Hindu puja and homa, and then we'll have an afternoon. After lunch we'll have a public meeting where we'll have different speakers talking about this project, its need and create a proper awareness of what we're trying to achieve here, and the next day will be a spiritual retreat. So that's the plan for the formal opening of this place.
Speaker 1:That's really good, Swamiji. How many people are we expecting?
Speaker 2:I would say we probably have 150-200. That's a big number. A lot of people are showing a lot of interest here.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:And yeah, around that maybe 150-200.
Speaker 1:A lot of locals as well, you said the local neighbors, which are all farmers over here.
Speaker 2:I'm amazed at the interest, know, and they were pretty clued up. You know so many people I have met who have said that they meditate or practice yoga or mindfulness, and when they heard we are going to do something here, they're all excited to come let's join and learn yes, I actually know more people here in glenbury than I know in this city and you've only been here for a short time, a very short time.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's right. Oh, that's all very exciting, samajee, it'll be good to see you again at the opening, along with all other dignitaries, right? So let's get back on on some of the key topics that we've been discussing. In the last episode, we talked about Karma Yoga and ended by introducing other yogas and suggested that we actually talk about Jnana Yoga in this episode. So, swamiji, let's start with that. What is Jnana Yoga?
Speaker 2:Jnana Yoga is the path of knowledge. Yoga means to join, to join the individual soul with the universal soul, with the of the joining of the wave to the ocean, so to say. The ocean is the reality, the wave appears and disappears, okay, and so behind us, the human personality is the divine personality, the universal consciousness. That is the reality, permanent reality, everything, all the waves appear and disappear. We appear and disappear in that way. So our Vedic sages, when they dive deep within themselves and explore the inner dimension of human beings, they discover, they peel the human being like we peel the onions, you know, and say hey look, the gross external is the body, but beyond that is the vital force, pranamaya kosha. Beyond that is the mind, thoughts, emotions, feelings. They reside there. Then there is, even finer than that, vijnanamaya kosha okay, intelligence, you might want to say. And then there is bliss, anandamaya kosha. And finally, finally, all the koshas, all the sheets are removed and we are left with a unitary universal consciousness, which is the ocean, so to say. And so that is our divine birthright, all of us. The difference between you and me and anyone is the manifestation of that power. In some it is manifested more, in other it is less. So the real power in its fullness, infinity, actually is available in that spiritual consciousness level, in the Atman level, what you call the Brahman level. And the more we deviate from that, when these layers are superimposed one on top of the other, so to say, these layers, so to say, obstruct the power of the Atman and we are reduced to a human being with all its limitations little knowledge, little happiness, little short life, and all that truly bound. So when this truth was realized then, then the sages said we can utilize this power of discrimination that we all have, buddhi, that is what sort of distinguishes a human being from many other species that dwell on this earth. We human beings have a little bit more of that, and so can we utilize that power of discrimination.
Speaker 2:What is that discrimination For a spiritual purpose? What's the nature of that? It's a constant discrimination between what is permanent and what is transitory. The ocean is the unchanging, unitary, permanent entity. Everything is in this jagat coming and going. Nothing is permanent. So when we engage with the world, looking for food, clothing, shelter, money, this, and that we should never forget the nature of this, this is not permanent. Yeah, because if we start treating as a permanent, then we'll get caught by it, yeah, okay. So when that buddhi awak Because if you start treating yourself as permanent, then you'll get caught by it, yeah, okay. So when that buddhi awakens, then you will say, okay, I need so much and that much only. But my reality is not this changing world, I will have to leave this body and go on. Everyone will have to do, and everything here, materially house, money, relatives, children, family everything will be left behind. Why do I make up?
Speaker 2:too much big deal first about it, and overwhelm ourselves when this is going to be discarded and left, whether we like it or not. So that type of spiritual this is called buddhi, what we might say is a spiritual intelligence. Okay, our scriptures say there are two types of people One in whom this buddhi has awakened yeah, okay. And others who are called mudha, dull or bala children. In children, like, their minds are not developed, so parents have to supervise and guide them all the time. Later on they're supposed to grow up.
Speaker 2:So as we come in again and again to this world, we grow more mature and this capacity awakens. And then you see through the facade of many things and try to achieve or walk towards that permanent thing and not too much get caught into this. Try to achieve or walk towards that permanent thing and not too much get caught into this. So this type of spiritual discrimination, constant discrimination, okay, we might sit down quietly and have a spiritual talk and that sense of discrimination will wake up for a while. But then as soon as people go back into the world job, duties, responsibilities somehow the world comes and covers it up.
Speaker 1:You forget about.
Speaker 2:So how do we cultivate that alertness that is abiding all the time, even in the midst of activities? I am able to hold on to that idea, the idea of the nature, of this beautiful, wonderful nature of the Atman. Compared to what this world is, world is transitory. At the end of the day, it's a big zero, no matter how big important we make of it. So the scriptures they start telling us, giving us a comparison, because you see, to identify an error, one should be able to make a comparison between one thing and another.
Speaker 2:If you don't have a comparison, then you don't even understand that you're making a mistake. For example, if somebody is dreaming, and in that dream he's a dreamer, he's got dream personality, he's gone to another country or having some particular experience, painful or pleasant, whatever, while he's dreaming, that dream dreamer and all the experiences are real for him, yeah. But when he wakes up, suppose he was having a nightmare. And he wakes up and he finds he's sleeping in his bed and he says, thank god, you know, this is just a dream, it was a nightmare, you know. And so all that pain and suffering, of fear that was in the dream states is cut off in one slash, one stroke, the moment he relegates that dream experience to be unreal, okay, and he's safe here. So if that comparison is not available, he will continue suffering and sometimes people are caught into that. You see the same misery, worry, anxiety. They're not able to detach and let go and come out of it because they don't have the other experience to compare with and discard the unreal one, the dream and the real experience, living, waking experience is a good example.
Speaker 2:So the scriptures first, at least intellectually, will introduce to us the nature of the Atman. Atman means our spiritual dimension of our being. So we talked right from the beginning that we are a human being is essentially a spiritual being, having a human experience. In that process he has embodied himself. First appears the ego, then appears the buddhi, then appears this mind, ego, then appears the buddhi, then appears this mind, then appears this body with his senses and physical activities. Through that happen, through the body. So many layers have been okay.
Speaker 2:So the scriptures? And for people, they have no clue about that spiritual dimension. It's not taught by our parents in most cases, it's not taught by our teachers, not taught at universities. They're totally ignorant about that dimension. Here we have got a beautiful CV, bio data, some professional, and this is our identity. And that identity is shaking, you know. Okay, I'm rich, I'm poor, I hold a particular post or something. That is not your thing. It comes and goes. I'm strong, I'm healthy, I'm beautiful or handsome that is about the body. I'm a doctor, engineer, teacher. That is how the mind has been trained. That's not me. It wasn't there when I was born and it won't be there when I go. But all these identities are there, but nowhere we say I am the Atman, I am the pure one, I was never born, I never died, I never die type of thing.
Speaker 2:That is the defect in our education system, the modern education system. We just give what is called Aparagya, aparavidya. Vidya means knowledge, paravidya is higher knowledge, self-know, aparavidya is everything that we learn in our studies, education by which we manage our everyday affairs. In the old traditional system, a child was taught both and, equipped with that knowledge, he went out in the world and while he was doing his duties and responsibilities, he always could fall back onto that higher knowledge and that was the anchor and gave him strength and stability and poise and balance and all those things. So the script just starts with that.
Speaker 2:There's a beautiful book called. It's a purely Advaitic book called Astha Vakra Samhita. It's not for everyone. You can read it intellectually but if you can't practice it then it's of no use. But there's a beautiful verse out of there about this Atman. It says Atma shakshiibhupurna Eko Mukta Chidakriya Asangho Nispriya Shanto Brahmat Sansarvaniva.
Speaker 2:So this Atman is a Sakshi, is a witness. It touches, watches everything, but without getting involved in anything. It's a spectator, like watching a football match, you know. Like watching a football match, you know, enjoying the whole thing is all providing. But here in the body, I just provide within the boundaries of my skin. That being is the universe, like the ocean. All providing is full, complete. It's not unlimited. The wave is limited, but the ocean is unlimited. Okay. So this comparison, wave and ocean, you do, okay, yuhu purna. Echo is one, ocean is one, waves are many. Echo. Mukta ever free. Free means there's no bondage, no limitation, no birth, no death. Mukta ever free, chit means it's pure consciousness, knowledge, akriyaya, without any action. Action is happening on the surface of the waves. Deep inside there is no movement type of thing.
Speaker 2:Asangho, nispriya, asanto, without any attachment to anything. We suffer because we have attachment, attachment to people or job or money or this and that, and when that comes your way, then you are happy. When it's taken away, it makes us miserable. The atman is not attached to anything, okay. Therefore it's unaffected by anything. You cannot make it miserable, type, because you take it. It's not mine. Asango nishpriha without any desire. Desire means if I have a, I'm deficient in some way, then I'll have a desire to fulfill, make up for that and therefore some activity will happen. But if I am poor, I am complete. I don't have to exert myself to become better without any, without any peace. That is the nature of you and me and everyone here and now at that spiritual dimension. Okay, then what's the problem? Oh, we have a problem.
Speaker 2:Brahmat sansarvaniva Out of ignorance, it thinks it's born and it's dying. When the body is born and body is dying, it thinks it is born and it is dying. Okay, that is its problem. So our normal, what you call the normal state of people is full of ignorance, spiritual ignorance. We might know so many things about the external, material world, but spiritually I do not know. People do not know where did they come from, they're going, why they're here. Everyone is beating their drums and making confusion, more confounded type of thing. So these spiritual teachers when they dive deep within themselves and say hey, we are just suffering too much here due to ignorance. In each one is the ocean, and the path of Jnana Marga is to use this knowledge, being always mindful in the midst of all activities. When we engage with anything to remind ourselves, this is transitory.
Speaker 1:This is only temporary. So, let's not get too mingled or intertwined with all this.
Speaker 2:And this body that I'm attached to is not my body. Okay, many I have taken in the past and many in future I will take. Okay, so my identity is that Atman nature. Yeah, how do I always remember that? So, yes, we are talking now, you know it makes sense, sense, but then within 10 minutes, 15 minutes we get busy with and that this knowledge will fade away somewhere in the background. Yeah, the identity I'm Sunil. Yeah, I've got a job or duty or responsibility, and all that will come in. You will begin to react and interact with the world, discharging your duties. You're not saying, okay, suppose somebody is diagnosed with cancer and this and that, and he says okay yeah, the body comes and goes, but I'm the Atman, I will not die.
Speaker 2:Suppose you have trained yourself. It gives you a tremendous amount of strength. Yeah, you see. So how do you cultivate that knowledge? It's a bit hard intellectually.
Speaker 1:So gyan yoga, Gyan is knowledge. Yoga is union so what is?
Speaker 2:how do you so? By constantly reminding ourselves of what we are Okay and discarding what we are not Right? I'm not the body, I'm not the mind. This is just my temporary In ignorance I'm experiencing myself. This is just my temporary in ignorance. I'm experiencing myself this this is not my truth. Okay, my truth is that only one I am the pure consciousness. Sat Chit Ananda.
Speaker 1:It's a hard thing to do in real life. Right the practice, because you're so attached to say firstly your body and then everything else that you know. Because of the body, you know everything else that's attached to it as well. So are there any other examples? Swamiji, how can you explain this in a simpler way?
Speaker 2:okay, so the teachers understood that intellectually it's very hard to grasp. Okay, it requires not one listening, constant thinking, listening shravan manan, thinking deeply. What's the essence, what was the nature of the experience that these sages had, which they're trying to communicate to us through the scriptures? That would be the line of thinking. I just do not the intellectual understanding to get a feel of the experience here, you know, and then meditating deep on, deeply on it, trying to actually experience that. But then they also give nice fables and stories that help us remember.
Speaker 2:So there is a beautiful story of. The story goes like this there was a shepherd who had a flock of sheep that he would take out everyday to the forest in the pastures for grazing. So one day in the daytime he took his flock out into the forest and while he was grazing there the sheep, out of the forest, a lioness came out. She was hungry, needed something to eat, and there was this, all this nice fat sheep all around. So she chased them and as she was trying to jump over a ravine, deep creek type of thing, she fell and that exertion, she died, giving birth to a little cub, okay, little lion cub. And so the shepherd was looking at this and he took pity and he picked up the little helpless cub and took it home and fed it the sheep milk and started to take care of him, you know as a kind man. And so this little cub began to grow With the sheep, yeah, with the sheep With the sheep, so the shepherds.
Speaker 1:He's moving around there.
Speaker 2:The sheep, the mother ewe's are feeding him. So he thinks that's my mother and he's learning whatever they're doing. So they're going around bleating, so he's also bleating. He's doing everything like a sheep, you know, and there's no other lion. So he thinks there's no mirror for him to see that he's any different from the sheep. So he comes under the spell that he's also one of them, does everything like that. And so he grew up into a pretty big lion. But doing eating grass, bleating, going out every day with them and coming back, that was his nature.
Speaker 2:One day, while he was out in the fields, another jungle lion from the forest came out and he saw again hungry, wanting to have some food, kill a sheep. But he was absolutely shocked when he saw in the flock there was this big lion and he was doing all these crazy things. He thought he was dreaming. He rubbed his eyes what am I seeing? And so he was amazed. So he forgot all about his hunger and things. He was amazed.
Speaker 2:What's wrong with this guy? Why is he behaving like a sheep? He said. Let me get hold of him, teach him a lesson. So he crept upon him and slowly jumped on him and you could imagine the tremendous amount of commotion. This guy is screaming just like all other sheep. Others ran. He's trying to say please, let me go, don't kill me, and this and that. So the jungle lion said hey, what's the nonsense you're talking about? You are not a sheep, why are you behaving like that? Then he said no, no, I'm a sheep, you know. Please don't kill me.
Speaker 2:Okay, so the jungle lion understood this is a serious problem, you know. Just by telling him your line, he doesn't recognize. He's a lion. Okay, a little bit of scriptural knowledge will not make you understand. You are the atman. Okay, there's a meaning there. So he said I have to give him some experience that he is different from the sheep. Give him a comparison, because then he will be able to discriminate and understand his error.
Speaker 2:Okay, so he took him to a pond and said hey, look at your reflection there by force, and look there, and so this lion's face, and look at my face. And looked at the jungle lion and said hey, these two look alike, you know. So some recognition came. But that conditioning of the mind from childhood was so much that immediately says oh, please, please, don't kill me, you know. So this hypnotism that we are caught in this world is pretty chronic. For many, many lifetimes it has gone. So it doesn't fade away with a little bit of knowledge, information, knowledge, type of thing. So even if people say, yeah, I am the Atman- in this and they don't know those things.
Speaker 2:One minute, they will say but then the old samskaras will jump in and come back and behave in this same old way. So the first was okay, look at your face. Some recognition came and then he said okay, why are you eating grass? You, that is not your food, you know, you are a lion, you eat meat, you know. Immediately he said no, no, I am a vegetarian, please don't. So my force took some meat and put it in his mouth and he tasted it. He relished it. It tasted so good, so much better than the, than the grass he was eating every day. A little bit more recognition came, but still, yeah, it's not dying away totally. Then he said you are bleeding like a sheep. You know, that's not your natural sound. You see, you should row, like me. So he gave a mighty row. You try. That fellow tried Again. There was a huge row. He said, oh.
Speaker 2:So step by step, that illusion that he was a sheep went away. You see, he never became the sheep. No, he was a lion all the time. But in its mind, because of the conditioning and the exposure and experiences and what we are seeing all around and there was no comparison to differentiate itself from others had conditioned it to think it was a sheep and not a lion. And the process of deconditioning that mind was not. It's a step-by-step by process. You know there's resistance and you fall back to the old identity that you are. I'm a sheep type of thing. And so, finally, when he gave that mighty roar, then that realization came oh my god, my, all my life I was behaving like a sheep, when I was really not a sheep. He really felt very sheepish. And so then the two walked away.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so what's the message behind this beautiful parallel story? Well, look, we are all, but we are behaving like sheep. Okay, but just because we believe we are sheep doesn't mean that we have become sheep. Okay, that is ignorance. And the jungle lion is like the spiritual teacher who comes in step by step, helps remove those layers of ignorance and ultimately help that lion to realize his spiritual nature. And the moment they realize, then he abandons the whole flock of sheep and goes with the lion and he is a king of the jungle, he is free, there is no fear anymore. So that in this way this beautiful parable illustrates.
Speaker 1:That's good, that's very good, swamiji. That makes it a lot more clearer. But so we know what the end goal is. But what is the nature of the practice? How do we like, what are the steps or what are the things that people need to do to?
Speaker 2:So in this, in Jnana Yoga, we use the power of discrimination, what is called the buddhi. Buddhi is the power of intellect. We say intellect is the power of the tool through which you discriminate between two things right and wrong, good and bad, profitable and loss. You know whatever is there. So we utilize that buddhi, which people who are smart and intelligent and do very well in life, in business, and all those things, that buddhi is a good tool. But we also use it for the spiritual purpose. And what's the nature of the discrimination? Always keeping in mind of what we are and what we are not. The sword of discrimination is always out, slicing through everything, and the moment it says I am not this, then he tries to disconnect himself Because that's not true nature. On the other hand, he always tries to assert what he is, which is the Atman.
Speaker 2:Okay, so what is that? Like that verse I talked about, you know, quoted there Atma Shakshi, I am the witness. That means I don't get connected with him. I suffer because I attach myself to him. So he tries to cultivate those qualities of the Atman in the everyday life and give up all that is non-Atman, all that is the sheep. He tries to give up the sheep nature and tries to cultivate the atman nature. So it requires a very strong willpower. This practice requires a very strong willpower. It's not just saying, quoting scriptures, but you're not able to put into practice. For example, if you say I'm not the body, the body is hungry, body is becoming old, body is becoming sick, I'm not becoming sick. Therefore, let those changes come and go. I'm the witness. Okay, if the waves appear and disappear, there can be a billion waves in the ocean or there can be no waves. What difference does it make to the ocean?
Speaker 1:it's pretty hard, right then? Yeah, that's the hard part.
Speaker 2:It's like when your body does get sick, you immediately try and do something about it it still doesn't mean that you don't treat the body and don't give it food and medicine, okay, but you're not obsessively attached to it and say you know, this is, I'm gone, why me?
Speaker 1:Why did I get?
Speaker 2:cancer.
Speaker 1:Why did this happen?
Speaker 2:So this knowledge is very powerful, okay, for example, unless when, if you just cultivate it and you'll see in life, we'll be faced with crisis and difficulties, and at that time you bring this knowledge. For example, it's very common nowadays we hear people have been diagnosed with some terminal disease. Yeah, and at that moment the whole world falls apart because you have invested in this body, in this life, everything in this world from childhood. And now there is this danger that in a short time one will lose this, and that's very, very unsettling and frightening and disorienting and everything. And for many people they just lose their radar, lose all their peace of mind and they lose all passion for life. Everything just begins to fall apart.
Speaker 2:Now if somebody, even if he did not practice it all, but had cultivated this knowledge, and when faced in that crisis he says well, I understand, at least intellectually. Now I'm going to go through this experience, but I'm armed with that knowledge that, yes, the body will go. Maybe it will go a bit painfully, but it will go for everyone. No one will be spared. But the good thing is, my true nature is I'm eternal, I'm immortal and I would like to hold on to that. That is an intellectual exercise. Even that gives one some strength to confront death. Okay, which is most frightening for most people. Imagine somebody who has been able to experience that. So it's not an intellectual thing. And yoga and all those things practices are like I have.
Speaker 2:We have been discussing it is a conscious effort to disconnect the mind from this external ones, the body, you know. Disconnect from outside things, from the body and mind, lift it and have that experience not understanding, experience of what we are. That is called self-knowledge. Okay, when that happens, then everything is done. Until then we are in that journey as making our best effort. But that knowledge is a great savior. So in the Bhagavad Gita you will see when Arjuna is all confused about his duties and responsibilities. One of the first things Sri Krishna talks about is this knowledge Brings in the knowledge of the Atman you can't kill anyone, you will not be killed. Atman is actionless. Hold on to that knowledge and then you can go and do your karma and do other things. So I think you know this knowledge is so sacred, so powerful, that every child should have access to it. Parents should have access to it and they should teach it. It's their actual duty and responsibility. But if they don't make an effort and say I did not know, so I'm not teaching. There's no excuse really.
Speaker 1:But this would put a lot of things in perspective for a lot of people, right.
Speaker 2:Yes, because you expand your framework from a little miserable, ignorant, suffering human being, a little wave being tossed around on the surface of the ocean, and embrace not only the ocean but you embrace all other waves as part of that same ocean and you relate with all of them, not as individuals but as manifestations of that same ocean. And you relate with all of them not, you know, as individuals but as manifestations of that divine consciousness. And that takes us to the teachings about how we apply and practice that. Maybe we should take that on another episode about how do we apply this knowledge in our everyday life excellent.
Speaker 1:That sounds really good, and thank you for the information. That was quite helpful. Good start to Gyan Yoga, but there's lots more to cover on this topic, so we'll carry on in the next episode.
Speaker 2:Thank you.
Speaker 1:Swamiji Most welcome, Sunil.
